DISCIPLINE NOT CHARACTER-BUILDING IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS

Once again the Grand Rapids Area Transit Authority has shut down the Rapid terminal in downtown Grand Rapids where students from the city's high schools gather to changes buses going to and from home.  The reason is that too many of these students are thugs who insist upon brawling instead of waiting peaceably for transfer buses.  These slugfests are serious enough to result in arrests by the Grand Rapids police, as happened Tuesday and prompted Wednesday's closing of the terminal.

In response, officials of the Grand Rapids Public School District are wringing their hands.  According to the Grand Rapids Press, the district's director of security, Larry Johnson, says he's disappointed but closing down the terminal is not the answer.  Yet he and the ten security officers he has assigned to the terminal have no answers.  "I'm at a loss about what to do", he bemoaned.  Superintendent Bernard Taylor was similarly clueless.  On the one hand he has complained that arresting brawlers creates an unfair impression of city students, while on the other he has begged students in a letter to behave better.  (Think about this for a moment, dear readers.  Doesn't such a letter do exactly what Taylor complains of, because he lays the problem on all students instead of just the miscreants?)

Of course, that's the heart of the problem:  To avoid holding those responsible for the increasing violence among city students, public school officials blame everyone else.  If not always directly, they do so by putting the burden of solving the problem on everyone but themselves.  Why this is so, is a bit baffling.  It's not difficult to solve.  Expel those students who will not comply with the discipline that keeps the order necessary for effective education.  Yes, I know that the pantywaist bleeting against explusion is that our public schools will no longer have any influence over these thugs to somehow put them on the path of good citizenship.  True, but then that's not their job.

A student's unwillingness to behave is not the responsibility of our public schools to correct.  It is the job of the student's parents or guardians, not our public schools, to build the character in him or her that doesn't succumb to impulse and malice.  It is the job of our public schools to maintain discipline so that all other students have the opportunity to learn in a tranquil environment.  By not expelling the thugs and miscreants, public school officials have tacitly put the interests of these bad actors over the great majority of students who are at school to get an education.

Comments

[beentheredonethat]

How about taking away the free bus passes many of these kids get - if they want to hang out at the bus depot, let them get there on their own instead of using tax payers' money.

[The Executive Director]

Hi, Nancy.

You too kind-hearted. I'd rather see the thugs expelled under a restraining order that prohibits them from getting near the bus terminal (or school property for that matter).

Regards, Bill

[Ames]

Perhaps if so many public school bus drivers hadn't been fired over the last couple of years, this type of BS wouldn't be happening? When I was still in school those bus drivers tolerated NOTHING. I am also with Nancy about taking away the free passes. I don't get to ride the bus for free... why should they?

I would be very interested in knowing just how many of them are located within walking distance of their school, how many of them are actual dropouts and not students, how many are gang members, and if this is a low-income issue or not. (My guess is yes.)

In my house the other night we were discussing the ignorance of low income people and how they cheat the system, are not the brightest crayons in the box, and they strive to remain stupid and ignorant. It sounds to me as if this were the same case.

And Speaking of ignorance I am also willing to bet that predominantly, these are minority students, judging by the way that they speak. (From a woodtv.com article ""Sometimes I be here like for two hours," said student Davonya Riggins." http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?s=6191024) These students can't even speak proper English, so how in the hell can we expect them to behave themselves?

[Dan]

First of all it was the GRPS school board that cut the funding for public high school busing, which pushed the students into having to ride the rapid buses. So now you have all four high schools meeting at the same location at the same time. A possible solution would be limiting the times a student could use his bus pass, which would make them get off and get the next available transfer.

[Brandon]

Ames,

Without detracting from the overall point(s) you may have been trying to get across, I think you might want to reconsider a couple of things you wrote.

Since when are *all* low-income people stupid, ignorant and out to cheat the system? Unless, of course, by “stupid”, “ignorant” and “low-income” you don't mean *all* people, just black people.

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt (at least for the moment) by assuming you merely chose your words unadvisedly.

Brandon

[Ames]

Brandon,
Ever seen an episode of COPS? Predominantly white folks in trailer parks that are low-income, ignorant, stupid, and not the brightest crayons. Many are on welfare, or work low paying jobs, and none strive to be anything better than what they are.

I meant what I said when I said ALL low-income folks, but perhaps, I should have said MOST instead of all?

I did, however, point out that these particular students are probably minority, but in general, *most* not all, low income people are not striving to change their ways. Not just black people.

I was in fact, quite careful with how I chose my words. There is no sense in people blaming others because they can't and don't strive to be better people themselves. No difference in this particular case. The parents and everyone involved are blaming everyone BUT those causing the problems.

I am tired of those who won't take responsibility, and won't step up to be better people blaming others.

[Brandon]

Yeah, ‘cause COPS is ever so representative of most low-income folks, right?

Look, you’ll get no argument from me about the – let’s call it poor social skills – of the kids who’ve been terrorizing the Rapid bus station; I live and work in an area of town that sees its fair share of such behavior, and I’ll be the first one to suggest that they ought to be dealt with swiftly and severely. Furthermore, it undoubtedly does stem from ignorance and lack of discipline in the home (among other factors). But to leap from that hypothesis to the conclusion that all or most low-income people – black, white or otherwise – are *willfully* stupid, ignorant and without the urge to better their circumstances is not only untrue and unkind, it is itself manifestly ignorant.

I respect that you feel strongly enough to reiterate your opinion and not back down, but that still doesn’t make it any less of a shameful sentiment.

[The Executive Director]

Hi, Dan.

I agree that is probably best to not schedule students to converge on one place. Beyond that, I don't think it is necessary to restrict all students unless there is a compelling reason. Better to send away the troublemakers than to encumber everyone else with rules that only the good kids will comply with anyway.

Regards,
Bill Tingley
Executive Director, L.A.W.

[The Executive Director]

Hi, Amie & Brandon.

If I may interject about poverty, ignorance, and lack of discipline ...

There are, of course, people who are trapped in poverty by a misfortune beyond their control. In this land of opportunity, there a few and far between and merit our charity.

More common are people who are mired in poverty because of dysfunctional environments that will not liberate themselves from. Granted that is often easier said than done, especially if a person has lived his life with little encouragement to do better. However, no one (except the very young and the mentally incapacited) is truly ignorant of the better world that awaits them if he chooses to clean up his act and go after it. We should show such people compassion and even render assistance provided that the desire and will is there to move forward.

Then there are those who are choose to warp their lives around sloth, addiction, and instant gratification. They are poor, if not because they specifically wish to be, then because they choose to indulge in behaviors that prevent them from being another other than poor. Some people no matter how wealthy, just, and compassionate a society is, will choose to live in the gutter. While I would never close the door on such a person who decides to get back on his feet, I will not overlook that it was his bad choices that took him to the bottom. In fact, it is true that sometimes you must deal harshly with such people to get them to realize what a bad path they are on.

So there is a great deal to be said that ignorance and lack of discipline are the primary cause of poverty, and not the other way around. At least in this country where opportunity is plentiful if not always perfect. And I suspect all three of us are close to being on the same page on this.

Regards, Bill

[Brandon]

Bill,

At the risk of splitting hairs, I think your comments allude to a more wide-ranging and nuanced definition of poverty than the one Amie and I are arguing about. You seem to be stating the obvious and eminently reasonable position that because some people have made poor choices and behaved in certain ways, they find themselves in poverty. Agreed.

Amie, on the other hand, appears to be working from the opposite notion that because someone is poor, he or she is ipso facto an ignorant, maladjusted and morally inferior person who’s out to cheat the system and sponge off our tax dollars. Preposterous.

Discussing *why* someone is poor is entirely different from making sweeping generalizations about everyone who happens to fall below a certain income level (or live in a certain neighborhood, or speak a certain way, or….). It is precisely that mindset that makes it more difficult for people to rise above their circumstances.

[Dan]

Bill you said "I don't think it is necessary to restrict all students unless there is a compelling reason". Restrict them from what? If the fools on the school board like david allen didn't vote to do this the kids would have been picked up and droped off at the same spot mon-fri, they wouldn't have been able to get a free bus ticket anytime where ever they wanted to go. If anything they could give an all access pass to those w/ 2.0 or higher grade point average. How could there be restrictions from something they would have never had.

[Ames]

Bill,
I agree with what you said. However, how can we expect better of those who don't want or care to do better themselves?

I have worked with low-income families before. I have heard straight out of the horses mouth that they can make more sitting at home, or having more babies than they ever could working. Or all they want to do is play professional sports. Or they just want to win the lottery. Or whatever the case may be.

Many low-income people have opportunities that you and I do not have. They have program assistance, free college education, free education period, and they choose not to accept it, or to do anything with it. They get free meals, free on the job training, and yet they choose to sit at home, and do nothing.

What are they teaching their children? That this is acceptable. That they don't need to behave themselves, and that they don't need a good and proper education. They can just get free handouts, and live in semi-comfort. Hell, if that's all I had ever known why in the world would I have gone to college, and be working for "the man" day after day?

Brandon obviously doesn't understand sarcasm when it's presented in a forthright manner. I'll try harder next time.

Anyone who wants to rise above the ashes and make something of themselves, is all right in my book; in fact I highly encourage it. But then again, when a large lot of apples ruins it for everyone, I don't necessarily trust all talk and no action.

Back to the topic at hand, why doesn't the Grand Rapids School system re-instate the bus drivers they hired, and get this back under control? Those bus passes must be costing a fortune! (And on MY dime no less!)

[Brandon]

I actually have a rather robust appreciation for sarcasm; so much so that I recognize when it’s absent (in your postings, for example).

I’m not denying that there are people who ride the system and are content to exploit it in the manner you describe, and I’m not saying I don’t share in your anger and disgust for those who do it. But people are individuals, not politically expedient demographics to be used as a rationale for whatever shade of social Darwinism you might find intellectually appealing.

Again, my beef is not with how you think people who abuse the system should be dealt with. It’s that you seem to be content painting people with way too broad a brush, that’s all.

[The Executive Director]

Hi, Dan.

My point wasn't to support the current transportation program for high school students. I think your criticism of it is valid. What I wanted to emphasize is that discipline is primary, and so the response to malefactors is to punish or even expel them, not to make policy changes that unfavorable affect those who are disciplined.

Regards, Bill

[The Executive Director]

Hi, Brandon & Amie.

Brandon, I agree that Amie introduced her point of view with a broad brush. For better or worse, a forum like this lends itself to that. The corrective is what you did to more clearly delineate what is at issue. That's not hair-splitting. It makes the conversation worthwhile, instead of a shouting session. I appreciate your reasonableness in tackling a contentious matter like this, and I think Amie has responded to you in good faith. Of course, more needs to said and cleared up before we're all on the same page -- as I suspect we are for the most part.

Amie, you ask "... how can we expect better of those who don't want or care to do better themselves?" Hope. Hope that a person who pursues self-destruction finally embraces that love of life, goodness, and decency that is written upon each and every human heart. However, none of us can make that embrace for another. We can help another to recognize what is true and desirable, but that old adage applies about leading a horse to water.

So, the question turns on what should any of us do about those mired in poverty because of the bad choices they have made. That really depends upon who you are and who the person in poverty is. All of us are limited in resources, and we all have priorities in obligations to others. No one who wilfully turns away from the good and decent life commands our charity, but it would be unwise to be uncharitable for that reason alone. Effectiveness must always be a primary consideration. But how any of us can be effective depends on the particular circumstances of the situation.

So there is no universal prescription to remedy chronic poverty. That's why government programs are not only failures, but usually exacerbate the problem (as you outlined).

Regards, Bill

[beentheredonethat]

Bill - I didn't mean to only pull their pass as a means of punishment - I fully support enforcing the policies on the books and if this includes involving the police, so be it. This is something that the school district fails to do, they refuse to take charge. Instead they pass the blame and then make additional policies and procedures that they don't follow up on. What I do have concerns with are just throwing the students out on to the street by expelling them. As it is, these kids ride the bus to school, get off and then wander the neighborhood around the school until it's time to go home. What I have suggested in the past was to use one of the vacant buildings, one furthest from a residential area, as a school for these individuals. Hire some of the biggest, meanest staff and actually teach these kids something productive. There are individuals in the United States that have funded this kind of program within other urban areas and it has been very successful. The only problem GRPS would have with this is making sure the funds designated for a program such as this are actually spent on that program and not something else.