THE PYRAMID IS CRUMBLING

The Grand Rapids Press sorta reported this on Wednesday, but here’s the real story …

A few years back the Fixer helped Rich and Jay re-brand the Amway multi-level marketing scam as Quixtar.  Sure, call it a corporate reorganization if want, but it’s the same ol’ pyramid, the same ol’ hucksters, and the same ol’ suckers buying Amway kits and loads of motivational materials from the hucksters.  But now the hucksters are feuding.  The big bucks in the Amway/Quixtar pyramid come from flogging motivational books, tapes, CD’s, and seminars to newbie Amway distributors.  It seems that not all the hucksters are getting their chance to fleece the flock with tapes and seminars.  Only the hucksters highest on the pyramid, the “kingpins”, get to do that.  So a group of non-kingpin hucksters filed suit against Amway in the U.S. district court in the western district of Missouri.

They accuse Amway a.k.a. Quixtar of helping the kingpins monopolize what is known in their parlance as the “tools and functions” trade – i.e., motivational materials and seminars.  About twenty years ago Amway and the kingpins, the independent distributors at the top of the pyramid, were in a Mexican stand-off.  The kingpins were making most of their money pushing “tools and functions” instead of Amway kits, which displeased Amway.  However, Amway needed the kingpins to recruit new distributors into the bottom of the pyramid to buy Amway kits and keep the Ponzi scheme rolling forward.  Likewise, the kingpins needed a product like the Amway kit as a pretext to hook new distributors and then browbeat them into attending their seminars and buy piles of their motivational materials.

In the early ‘80s the kingpins showed Amway that they had the clout to reduce the sales of Amway’s kits – you know, that bundle of soap and vitamins that a new distributor buys thinking he’s going to get rich reselling the stuff to others (just as those motivational tapes he bought from his kingpin tell him) but almost always ends up using the overpriced products for himself.  So Amway dropped its opposition to the “tools and functions” trade and instead decided to regulate it.  Primarily that meant enforcing rules that let the kingpins monopolize the trade.

It’s a business that is rotten to its core.  Amway’s real customer is the sucker who buys the distributor’s kit.  Getting rich off reselling the goods in the kit is a pipe dream fueled by the kingpins and their get-rich-quick wares.  So the kingpins are parasites feeding off of Amway’s already parasitical business, yet Amway is completely dependent upon them.  They bring in Amway’s new customers/distributors.  You already know Rich DeVos and Jay Van Andel, the founders of Amway.  Now know their kingpins, Ron Puryear, Dexter Yager, and Bill Britt, who are in the filthy business of conning ordinary people into buying Amway kits through their motivational materials promising them riches if they do.  Also know that the mid-level distributors who are suing Amway are no champions of free enterprise.  What they want is a piece of the kingpins’ “tools and functions” trade.  It’s one band of thieves suing another.

The pyramid is crumbling.  Well, you were never foolish enough to get suckered by Amway, so what does it matter to you as a taxpayer or a resident of Grand Rapids?  An excellent question, which I will answer next week.

Comments

[The Man]

Tingley, huh? Well take the garbage bag off your head, and put down the paint can. How do you get away with this [deleted by Editor]?? Freedom of speach - my [deleted by Editor]! You're a straight up liar! Do you even know what a Ponzi is?? NO ONE who understands Quixtar would call it a Ponzi scheme. You're an imbecile and wasting valuable oxygen.

If you want FACTS about Quixtar go to http://www.ThisBizNow.com and www.QuixtarFacts.com. Quixtar is a business that allows you to retail products (which people DO retail!) and allows you to also buy it for yourself and get PAID for your volume. You can have customers, and you can also develop teams of owners like yourself. Some people have big teams and they hold seminars. If you want the training, you go - if not, you don't! Its Optional! Kinda like college. If you're gonna drop $80,000 on an education, you Might want to go to a lecture every now and then. You May want to read a book! Wait a minute! Paying for knowledge?, buying books? -- My goodnes, College is a scam!! No actually-- its a PONZI Scheme!!

Get a clue buddy!! :P

[steepens]

I could not disagree with "the man" more. His ill-tempered attitude immediately renders a deaf ear.

When operated and enforced according to the laws of the United States, where most products are sold 'outside' the business, neither Amway or Quixtar qualify as a Ponzi scheme or Pyramid.

However, Amway and Quixtar infrequently enforce these regulations. The distributors are by and large encouraged to recruit, and buy from themselves. 'Selling' is seldom encouraged or taught.

The 'college' analogy is ridiculous. To liken college to a Ponzi scheme, each college recruit would be required to assemble 6 other recruits which generate a minimum of $40k revenue each. This requirement would have to be met prior to receiving a diploma or accepting a job.

The methods used by Amway and Quixtar distributors is nothing short of brainwashing.

[Andy Postema]

To "The Man",

I think I understand why you're angry with LAW's article. Either you're a dupe of Quixtar and trying hard to deny the reality of the scam you fell for. Or you're a Quixtar kingpin/con artist whose cover has been blown. But I'm not sure which, so I don't know whether to pity or despire you.

Andy

[Andy Postema]

To LAW:

There aren't many people who defend free enterprise more fiercely than I do. So, I want to say that your articles on Amway/Quixtar/Devos/VanAndel are a service to free enterprise by exposing the essentially deceitful nature of their business and their constant lobbying for tax dollars to pay for their ventures.

Andy

[The Man]

Well since you have neither a sense of sarcasm nor a clue about this business... I guess you can pity me now, and despise me later. Sorry you had a bad experience with an IBO - don't blame me. But blaming all IBOs is absolute [deleted by hack editor]. I mean only a complete [deleted by simpleton] would try to call Qx a Ponzi scheme. Try seeing this business for what it is, not a guarantee but an opportunity- and stop being such a [deleted by bitter fool]!

haha j/k

-T

[The Executive Director]

Andy,

Thanks for your support. I firmly agree with you that Amway is not an exemplar of free enterprise. The fact that it is legal doesn't make it moral. The fact that some people volunteer to be duped doesn't mean you should build a business around duping them. There are plenty of honest ways to make money. Amway isn't one of them.

Regards,
Bill Tingley
Executive Director

[The Executive Director]

The Man,

Let me make the following observation. Your first comment was littered with foul language which you were clever enough to spell with substitute characters, like a "$" for an "S". That way they could slip through the filters many sites like this one has to maintain a certain level a decency in the public comment sections. That tells me you are practiced in dishonesty. No surprise then that you found a home at Amway.

Regards,
Bill Tingley
The Executive Director

[Tony]

WOW!! Deleted my entire post! Guess you can't share your opinions here unless you agree with the [hack editor]!! You commy POS. Yea, blah blah free enterprise, how about FREE SPEECH!

THIS SITE IS BOGUS!! This guy Appears to allow comments, but when he doesn't like them he'll delete them entirely! If anyone here wants TRUE and FACTUAL info on Quixtar go to http://www.ThisBizNow.com or http://www.QuixtarFacts.com

You'll get No facts from these posers here!

You guys are sad.

[The Executive Director]

Tony,

As you know full well, no one deleted your comments, although I will delete all the copies you posted of your most recent comments. If you insist on making mischief here in your advocacy of Quixtar, you are only confirming what the Local Area Watch has stated about the decency of your business.

Bill Tingley
The Executive Director

[Tony]

Whatever BILL - I posted yesterday as "The Man", and put in the phrase "those who call it a Ponzi are a bunch of "[deleted by hack editor]" and several other witty variations and someone deleted the whole thing! I saw it posted and then it was gone. And you confirm what I hear about you. I can't stand people who shoot from the hip and either don't bother to get all the facts, or have them and just don't care cause they're bitter!

Good day!

[The Executive Director]

Tony,

Your "hack editor" post is where it's always been. It's the fifth comment for this article.

Bill Tingley
Executive Director

[Tony]

YOU know full well that it wasn't there before - if it was, I wouldn't have bothered writing the 2nd post. And I didn't "miss" it either, I checked line by line, it was gone the day after posting, now its back. Whatever.

And are you new to blogging? The use of $, *, and @ have been used forever. Oh, and get a clue, I was never in Amway. Don't make presumptions on me, you know nothing about me. But you definitely seem to be the judgemental type. Also a little biter and hateful. Sorry you had a "bad" upline. Sorry your best friend quit, etc. I'm done wasting time arguing the legitamacy of this business.

I'd like to hear your rebuttle of things said on the 2 websites I've listed. What do you have to say to those facts, and the public officials, corporate executives, and others that express support of Quixtar. Go to http://www.ThisBizNow.com and http://www.QuixtarFacts.com. Tell me your thoughts on that...

[Keith Sr.]

Poor Tony,

You cannot paint over the "bathroom walls" of the internet quickly enough to hide the truth of this scam. It truly is a shame that you are sucked in as deeply as you are. Time to pull your head out.

Thank you, Bill, for the intelligent commentary on the entire scam. It was an often taught statistic that millions of potential recruits into Am/Quix were entering the target demographic every year. The "business" is built on new meat, idiot retreads, and jaded wannabe kingpins. This "business" truly does fleece the sheep.

Absolute cr-p wrapped up in the American flag, family values and Christian ethics.

Disgusting (not the values, certainly - but their hijacking )

[Tony]

My name is Tony - I thought you were alot cooler than that Keith - I expect it from df, not you. Say what you want about me and/or the business.... We'll See!!

[ike]

ok im new to this but to let u all know i have done my reserch ,,,, my story

my wife has been in with one of the los in quixtar for 6 months now , and for six months ive been reserching this thing and its the bigest scam out there ,, not quixtar itself but the tool bussness and the king pins ,,,lets look at this ,, seminars 25.00 last month we went to one there were 4,000 peopel at this = 100,000 made i called the place and it cost them a total of 9,000 dollars to rent for the day who got the other 90 thou ,,and the only thing that was said on stage was peopels personal story's and told everybody to get on system , system ,system ok so we got on system next cd's cost 12 dollars a week lissen to them personal storys and get on system ,lol,, im on system teach me how to do the bussness ,, no get on system ,, get the point ,,book of the month, comes down every month cost about 12 dollars a month ,, not to bad of books now lets do the math on just the cd alone ,, 8 cd's month x 6 dollars = 48.00 x 35,000 (number of peopel on system in our los from the top down )= 1,680,000 month, now in all fairness peopel that are platinums and above make money off this ,, but still half is unacounted for after all payouts, this is blood money and for everybody that gets it they are the ones that have to lay there heads on ther pillow every night ,,
two weeks ago i hade a meeting with my wifs upline platinum because i wanted off the system he was onest and said he cant help us on the bussness unless we were on system because we wouldent understand how the bussness worked (in other words eather you line my pockets or goto well u know )i looked at him and said what bussness are we sellign the tool bussness or the quickstar bussness boy the look on his face i peseded to tell him i hade a copy of the tool payout they get and would have no part of it because the system was desighned to sell the system ,,but i did belive in the quickstar bussness ,, well by this time he was prity mad ,, (lost his posture ) i preseded to give him my salution to the problem.................
but the system on the net cd's so everybody could download them then they would be free sagest a book of the month so everbody could buy the book from barns and nobels this way everybody could make money on it and lower the cost of seminars to 5 dollars each nobody needs to make 90 grand, boy he stoped me and said we cant do that because we make all our money on the system ( aww ther we go i got it out of him ) and he said nobody would speak , i told him that him these guys really belived in the QUIXSTAR BUSSNESS then they would speak for free i would ,, and by doing it this way more peopel would be abel to do the bussness and sucseed in it instead of loosing money every year ,, he then preseded to tell me not to sagest this thing to anybody else and if i had a problem with it take it up with quickstar ,, i told him im not under arburtration im not in the bussness lol,, i can say what ever i want ,, end of conversation, the problem is not quixtar its all these thieves out there ,, sorry for post so long ..

[ike]

woops corection on post above the 35,000 on system is a estament because noone could say howmany of the total 70,000 peopel that are on system so i split it in half as exampel of how much money is being spent on this ,,, from peopel that just dont know any better....

[Offbeatwriter]

I worked for InterNET Services Corporation (ISC) for 4 1/2 years until I was laid off last year. ISC, headquartered in Fort Mill, produces tools, tapes, and books to promote Dexter Yager's "Eight Step Pattern of Success," and it is run by his three sons, Doyle, Jeff and Steve. I worked mainly with Steve in business development, helping put together magazines, Web sites, prospecting and follow-through videos, and various other prospecting materials for the Diamonds who were plugged into the Yager System to sell to their downline. ISC also had an Events Department that hosted large-scale business meetings across the country. ISC also has several offices throughout the world. Their fastest-growing market right now is Korea.

Actually, working at ISC wasn't that bad. It was a pretty laid-back environment and it put us in a unique position to witness the inner workings of the business (and its politics) without actually being Quixtar distributors ourselves.

Some of the Diamonds who have or are currently plugged into the Yager System, and therefore streaming money to Dexter and Birdie, include Don & Nancy Wilson, Randy & Valorie Haugen, Jerry & Cherry Meadows, Scott & MJ Michael, Chuck & Colleen Goetschel, Fred & Linda Harteis, and Dom & Pat Coniguiliaro. When the Wilsons pulled out of Dexter's line of affiliation (thereby no longer plugging into his products or events), ISC took a nosedive. Within 24 hours, I, along with seven other salaried employees on the business development side, were let go. Since my layoff in November 2004, ISC has let go of at least 70 percent of its workforce and is in the process of a massive restructuring and re-scaling. I'm assuming that when the Wilsons left, others followed suit.

I'm surprised that no one on the Internet has mentioned the situation at ISC, as it must be symptomatic of the Quixtar and tools business in general.

The Quixtar business model IS indeed legitimate and legal; it's the business practices promoted by the high-level distributors (and, arguably, endorsed by Quixtar brass) that give the industry the stain of corruption it has.

Oh, I was told that the day after I was laid off, the Yager brothers arrived to work in brand-new shiny Hummers.

OB

[Tony]

Man, if an IBO wrote like "ike" he would be blasted! Ike, $9000 for the location rental. Gee I've heard so many other critics say they were free! So they do cost money? Hmm, I've never been to a seminar that costed $25? Was it 1 day?, 1 couple? The ones like that, that I go to cost like $8-10 dollars! Either way, do you think $25 is worth it? If not, then don't go!! I bet you had no problem shelling out $25 for a college textbo-- ahh, scratch that, you probably did.

My point is, knowledge is worth money! A University has 50,000 students paying $25,000 a year - do the math on that one!! I had textbooks that cost $190!! - and you're complaining about $25. well Don't go. Count on your job to take care of you! (?!) But I "sagest" you get around this team, and read As Many books As Possible!! You will definitely learn something from hanging around success-minded people. Good luck to you.

[ike]

lol yes for the location that was used with 4000 was 9 grand and yes 25 dollars per person for 1 night and the comparison to collage is just wrong at least in collage u get a education when going to the seminars all the talk about is there personal storys and dont teach u anything about the bussness (its a joke ) oh and major functions cost 75 dollars do the math 11000 peopel went to this thats 825,000 dollars made (someone got paid ) i would not mind paying this money if they taught u how to do the bussness but it all motavation just like the cd's all motavation not saying peopel dont need it , i think everybody thats a ibo knows about tuesday nights meeting at least there they teach u how to show the plan, if the cd's and the functions were to teach u more about the bussness it would be ok but they dont ,, and if you ar onnly paying 8 - 10 dollars for a seminar thats great ,, i would agree with that that way the rental is paid for and only a few dollars is made putting more money in peopel pockets so they can buy there products in turn everybody makes money, oh and i DO believe in the quixtar bussness not the motavation bussness its wrong praying on peopels dreams and sucking every dime they have. and dont forget what quixtar says itself about this subject ,, and dont forget what quixtar says about how many even make it in this busness platinum lvl .2440 % hense the . so a 99.76 % failure rate ,, 2004 numbers from quixtar its self ,,

i think the quixtar bussness is a good busness in its self but the motavation busness needs to be overhauld it can be free but that would take millions of dollars out of the hands of the top few and but it into the hands of the ibo's (hense buying more product and everybody making money insted of losing money every year)and nots let forget what the ftc says about the tool bussness it is agenst the law because it has no end consumer outside of th bussness,now even thow quixtar is legal hiow legal is it really out of the 380,300 ibo's (quixtar's numbers) how many do you think could really prove they are retailing products out to peopel not many i know in my wifs group they are tought to buy for them selfs and in reserch on the web alot of other groups do the same , (source web blogs and peopels personal story's out there) me personaly dont think its wrong to buy for urself and make money doing it ,, but thats me ,,

[Daniel]

Tony,
I can't believe you have to show up on every site that is critical of Quixtar. Why don't you go STP to build "your" business and line your upline's pockets with more money?
You are such a moron, it's hard to believe that people like you actually exist. I knew right away that you were Tony, when you referred to those propaganda sites in your first post. Shame on you! I hope you will NEVER again claim that people's marriages have been improved through Quixtar, being an unqualified (single) moron.
I really hope that you will see the light one day, before it's too late and you are tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.

[The Executive Director]

Daniel,

You rightly criticize Tony. However you make the mistake of thinking he hasn't seen the light of day re Amway/Quixtar. He knows full well that it's a scam, otherwise he wouldn't so dishonest in his conduct.

Regards,
Bill Tingley
Executive Director

[Tony]

Same boring arguments by the same boring critbots! You 2 are pathetic. Hey newsflash Dan - being married doesn't make you an expert on marriage, hence the 57% divorce rate!! Anyone who's read Personality Plus, The 5 Love Languages, and His Needs Her Needs, is a better expert than half the married people in this country!!

Yes, when couples don't see eye to eye on this business it could cause strife, especially if both have bold, stubborn personalities. But when both are on the same page and building it together and/or supportive of each other, it usually strengthens the marriage. These books aren't written by IBOs, they're general relationship books. And BWW system has a great list of these books which can definitely help a marriage. The mentorship of a caring upline can also help. Associating with successful couples helps as well, that can be both in and out of the business.

Guys, I sell XS and protein bars among other things. I use the same products myself. I get paid to do this. I also can help others do the samething. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

And no Dan I don't show up on everysite. I mainly frequented Qblog, until I was recently banned. The only reason I came here was cause Qblog link to him in one of his posts. But I'll share my Points of view and battle critics Wherever!
Have a nice life - I'm doing quite well, and its only getting better! Did you hear about the UFC Fighter joining my team? Yep, gonna do some big business with XS there!

Oh, and Talented Mr. tingley - I have never been dishonest on Any site! Thanks for LYING like a typical Critbot!

[Daniel]

Tony,
Okay, I won't waste my words on you from now on, because I am beginning to realize that it is futile trying to argue with a Quixbot.
I wish you a nice life as well.
Hope that prizefighter won't take out his aggression on you when he discovers the scam ;-)

[Dawson]

Just for fun here is a revised version of Tony's rant.-

Same boring arguments by the same boring Quixbots! You are pathetic. Hey newsflash Tony - being an IBO doesn't make you an expert on business, hence the 99% failure rate!! Anyone who's read "The Wallstreet Journal", "Why Most Small Businesses Don't Work and What to Do About It", and the want adds, is a better expert than over half the system tape heads in this country!!

[Dawson]

Just for fun here is a revised version of Tony's rant.-

Same boring arguments by the same boring Quixbots! You are pathetic. Hey newsflash Tony - being an IBO doesn't make you an expert on business, hence the 99% failure rate!! Anyone who's read "The Wallstreet Journal", "Why Most Small Businesses Don't Work and What to Do About It", and the want adds, is a better expert than over half the system tape heads in this country!!